Ramblin' Man

Do you think Dylan'sChronicles is an accurate account of those days?

Yes. I was amazed at his memory, and he certainly was very nice to me. But I didn't know that he was kind of wishin' that I'd stayed in Europe.

He admitted to walking around the Village aimlessly after first hearing your records. He wrote that you were "so confident it makes me sick."

Right. But the first time he heard my record was in Minneapolis, with John Pankake. He used to publish the Little Sandy Review. They were big fans of mine up to a point. But when I recorded a Ray Charles number ["I Got a Woman"], they panned my record. They didn't like me doing any pop music -- oh, ho ho! They liked those early recordings. Bob actually stole the first six records that I made in England.

He stole 'em from Pankake?

Yeah!

When was the last time you talked to Bob?

I saw him in person at a concert just about two months ago. He was racing on and off the bus and couldn't talk. But he did wave to me. He dedicated a song to me that evening, but I didn't know it 'cause I was back stage, where you can't hear anything.

Why do you think your relationship got strained so much over the years?

He just doesn't like to cling to the past. He seems to shun a lot of people that were friends. He likes to live in the future or in the present.

Did you see him on60 Minutes?

I saw that, yeah. He was remarkably clear and concise and open and took questions nicely. But even so, I think Dylan was cagey. He'll take a question and turn it around backwards and answer you with a question. But that's his birthright. He's a Gemini. You can't pin a Gemini down, 'cause they have a right to be two or more people at once.

What sign are you?

Leo. They're kind of pushy and loud and bossy and bombastic. You remember Mussolini? I think he was a Leo. I don't get along with most other Leos. It's like you can't have two lions in the same den. I have a Libra daughter, Ianna. I get along fairly well with her.

Congratulations on her Sundance award for The Ballad of Ramblin' Jack.

That was a kick in the pants! Took three years to make. I was embarrassed by some of the reality of it, though. I wanted to disappear through the floor a couple of times watchin' that thing. There were parts where I couldn't answer questions that Ianna was asking me. Like, "Daddy, why didn't you visit me that time?" I couldn't remember what she was talkin' about. I guess all kids feel neglected by their parents, especially if they're a musician on the road.

Did making the documentary reconcile some things?

Yeah. We ended up doing a tour together to publicize the movie for about a month, doing the Q&A thing. It helped our friendship.

I want to ask about Jack Kerouac. When he read you his entire manuscript for On the Road out loud during that three-day bender, did you make any literary suggestions?

No. I wasn't at all aware of things literary at that time. But my girlfriend, who introduced me to Jack, was kind of a literary groupie. They didn't have the word "groupie" at that time. Just like this Western show, Deadwood? I don't think they said "motherfucker" back then. "Motherfucker" came in in 1953. I was standin' right there! Some guy came down from Harlem to Bleecker Street and said "motherfucker." I'm sorry I didn't copyright it.

Is it true you stole the only woman that Allen Ginsberg ever loved?

That's what he said. Now, he's a poet. You can't believe poets. Poets are in love with the truth, but they love to bend it. They're using those mirrors that aren't flat; they're curved.

How did hanging out with the Beats affect your cowboy aesthetic?

I thought it was groovy. But certain things don't blend very well. Seems like the cowboy code was "Ride for the brand." This is the days of longhorn cattle and no fences. When they had a stampede, they had to round up them cows, git 'em to millin' or you might be killed. Don't suppose I'll ever get to own a big ranch myself. I had a big motorhome once. Burned right to the ground two weeks after my wife died -- first day of spring, about six months before the 9/11. Terrible time.

Which wife was that?

My last wife, Janice. She was my fifth wife. I've only been married five times.

Did winning the Grammy mean a lot to you?

I like it. And the cats love it. They like to rub up against it. It came with an owner's manual that warned you not to rub it with a rag, though, because the gold would come off.