Martin-you should look up Mom-she is back in Broomfield living with my sister-jeez it's been a good 10 plus years!!!!!!! And I find this article with your name in it-figured it had to be you!!!! Her last name is different-it's now anderson.
By Joel Warner
By Michael Roberts
By Joel Warner
By Michael Roberts
By Alan Prendergast
By Michael Roberts
By Michael Roberts
By Amber Taufen
Amelia Nicol grew up in the relative isolation of Grand County, but "I've always had an interest in where the world is heading," she says. When the then-twenty-year-old moved to Denver a few months ago, she got the chance to put that interest in action, shaving her hair into a Mohawk and getting involved with the city's radical anarchist community, a cultural underground of young people who thrive off the grid, living on food scavenged from dumpsters, sleeping in houses with dozens of roommates, relying on their road bikes the way a Hells Angel depends on his Harley, and protesting the authoritarian demands of capitalism whenever possible. "I came to the 4/20 rally in April," Nicol recalls. "I sat in the park and lit dollar bills on fire."
Soon after, she heard about the March Against Police Terror being planned by a number of groups, including the Anarchist Black Cross. Over the past year, metro police departments have been involved in a number of controversial incidents that have brought out protesters ("The Watcher," May 19). Marvin Booker, a 54-year-old street preacher, was tased and choked to death in a Denver jail last summer; in February, Oleg Gidenko, a twenty-year-old-Russian immigrant sitting in a parked truck, was shot to death by Aurora cops.
On the afternoon of Friday, May 6, Nicol joined an estimated 150 other March Against Police Terror protesters in Sunken Gardens Park, where they found an impressive number of riot-geared cops waiting for them. Since they're anarchists, the protesting groups had not applied for a permit; instead, they simply filled the streets, blocking traffic while holding giant banners of Marvin Booker and shouting, "No justice, no peace! Fuck the police!"
"The police presence was at times so overwhelming that they easily outnumbered the amount of marchers," recalls Dave Shapiro-Strano, an organizer with Anarchist Black Cross.
The Denver Police Department had set up a staging area in the Denver Health parking lot, assigning three Rapid Deployment Vehicles to "shadow" the march, in case any mass arrests or riot control were needed. Officer Martin Tritschler, a member of the DPD Gang Unit, later testified that the department was "wanting to keep them safe, keep them from getting hit by cars."
"It really surprised me," says Nicol, describing the police response. "We were being peaceful, and they had police officers just lining the streets. I was like, 'If that's not indicative of the problem, I don't know what is.'"
The protesters marched up to Colfax, then over to the 16th Street Mall, then down Speer Boulevard. "The march attempted to go down Santa Fe, but there was a scuffle with the police," remembers Strano, "so we headed west toward Kalamath."
By now the march had been going on for a few hours, and the organizers decided it was time to disperse. They began loudly chanting a countdown from ten, a tactic they'd agreed upon earlier that day; the plan was for everyone to run in different directions when the countdown got to one, confusing the police. But in the chaos of the protesters' sprinting away, there was an explosion.
Some dismissed the sound as a cheap firework; others assumed it was an Improvised Explosive Device, or even a Molotov cocktail. "At first I thought [the police] shot a tear-gas can at us," says Strano.
According to Tritschler, a young girl with a Mohawk had pulled out a six-inch long white tube and lit a fuse, then hurled the object at a group of officers. DPD Sergeant Thomas Sherwood was driving by in his police cruiser; the object exploded inches from his windshield.
"I was running away, and then I heard the firework go off," remembers Nicol. "I was running down an alley, and then I heard them yell behind me, 'Mohawk, Mohawk!' There was a car parked at the end of the alley, and I was like, 'Oh, fuck.'"
The cops pushed her to the pavement and bound her wrists with riot cuffs that cut into her skin. "My wrists were bleeding for days," she says. "I still have scars." The restraints forced her to bend her feet and legs awkwardly. "The whole time, I was like, 'Fuck you! Do your worst!,'" Nicol remembers, "and they definitely did."
Nicol was taken to the Van Cise-Simonet Detention Center a few blocks away. Four days later, the Denver District Attorney's Office announced that she was being charged with two counts of attempted murder of police officers and possession of an incendiary device, among other felonies and misdemeanors. She was facing a possible prison sentence of 90 to 120 years; her bond was set at $50,000. For the first four weeks, Nicol refused any attempts to post bond.
On Wednesday, June 8, about twenty anarchists assembled outside the Denver DA's office to protest the incarceration of Nicol, who had celebrated her 21st birthday in jail. "Amelia has been charged with a host of violent felonies, including two counts of attempted murder of law enforcement officers," proclaimed ABC's Strano. "These charges are completely fictitious. The Denver DA has overcharged Amelia Nicol to a horrifically startling degree."
Martin-you should look up Mom-she is back in Broomfield living with my sister-jeez it's been a good 10 plus years!!!!!!! And I find this article with your name in it-figured it had to be you!!!! Her last name is different-it's now anderson.
This girl obviously needs a place to live, let her live in jail, maybe she will pick up on some habits that she isn't used to, like taking a shower, and having some rules to follow by. I don't feel sorry for anyone like her, she may have killed someone on that day, then what
I feel sorry for these kids. Sure they irritate me with their negative attention getting ways, but they are lost. I'm not totally unlike them, I buck the system when I can, but I've learned to be more subtle. Now-a-days I "think" about flipping off the cameras at traffic signals. ha. That's about all the fight I've got left in me. I was broke in a while back and now happy to live within the confines of the law. It's just easier that way.
"Obviously the criminal justice system is working if most of the serious charges were dropped and the only charges left were reasonable"
In this case, perhaps. But, the problem is that often the trumped up serious charges are not dropped, and a defendant is quietly shuffled off to jail to serve several decades.
I was intrigued byt this statement in the article...
"Dave Shapiro-Strano, an organizer with Anarchist Black Cross."
"Anarchist... Organizer" are these two words not mutally exclusive?
But then our current President was a "Community Organizer", no wonder the nation is in such sorry shape after nearly three years, Obama was probably trained in the same school that spawned Mr. Shapiro-Strano.
All anarchy leads to tyranny. If you believe that there can be a true anarchist utopia, then you have not been a very good observer of human nature. What happens when there is no government and some other group disagrees with your anarchist lifestyle? Would you have to create some sort of structure to GOVERN the safety of your way of life? It is either that or strong man wins. In which case leads to tyranny. Go ahead take out the government. A new one will form and you will like it even less.Come on people, this is government and political science 101 stuff. Obviously the criminal justice system is working if most of the serious charges were dropped and the only charges left were reasonable. The police are not the only ones to be held accountable for their actions. Anarchists are to be held just as accountable. You can not throw an m-80 at the police and expect everything to be just fine. What is wrong with America is not the government, the bigger problem is what affects us all, government included. It is the gross display of ignorance in this country, of many individual's lack of ability to reason. It infects all agencies and all demographics. Use your brain. Not your emotions.
these punk ass spoiled brats have no clue what a world with true anarchy would be like. They would be the first pussies crying like little bytches that the "pigs" come save them when the 75% of the population thats bigger, stronger, smarter and more ruthless then them bust into there house, or car or whatever and take what they please from them. Maybe these teen-angst filled suburban kids need to go back to there parents house in the suburbs and be grateful that they wernt born in somalia with AIDS? or maybe they should go to north korea or iran and try that shyt, maybe they will see what true oppression is.
they're right. all over the country police are acting above the laws the swore to uphold. and when you have to fear the police and the judicial system, it's only fair that they should fear us. Don't waste your breath with the "it's not all police argument" it doesn't wash. They treat even the most minor traffic infraction as a life threatening encounter and if they can stereotype the public in this manner with no real cause or evidence then i don't see how we can possibly be expected to NOT stereotype them considering the preponderance of evidence supporting their criminal behavior. examples? ok, hows destroying a homeless camp, bragging about it and then claiming they did nothing wrong? not enough? ok, how's re-victimizing a sexual assault victim? as in returning to a womans home after taking a report to RAPE her? Still not enough? ok, hows # state troopers murdering an unarmed man in his own home and then being charged with "trespass"? these all occurred in grand jct. co. over the course of the last year. most cops are good my ass! how many incidents went unreported or were flatout ignored? I see an unbelievably broken justice system and frankly, like i said fear you pig? fuck that! fear US!
So, did she throw the M-80 or not? I'd be interested to know. Personally, I think throwing an explosive device at a police officer is worth 30 days in jail at least. So, I think before we can determine if the punishment is too hard, we need to find out if she did it. SOMEONE did. Does that say something about the anarchist community? Maybe....maybe not.
An obvious attempt to make law enforcement overreact. Not a total surprise that they did overreact though.
i'd love to publish some of these comments in our print edition -- ideally with the author's full name. If that's okay, e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org. (Or feel free to send another letter for publication.)
The funny thing about anarchists is that the majority of them would get absolutely fucking owned in a stateless society. Crazy rednecks would be using them as target practice.
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this is kind of harshpoor woman she already was suffering and now its even worst90-120 yrs, dont do it to herhttp://ethicalfutures.wordpres...
As appealing as living the anarchist lifestyle may seem (especially the eating-out-of-dumpsters part), it's the government (in some form) that keeps animals like these from hurling explosives at their fellow human beings whenever there is some disagreement.
Dear John, If people actually acted in the interests of all the people and not just some or a certain group or for people who have money then we could all live in a utopian anarchist society. It seems that your current perception of anarchy is filled with hateful and disturbing paradigms, to the contrary it is the complete opposite. It is so disgusting to hear how the police, the people you claim should be protecting us, are also abusing their power and thinking they are above the law committing atrocious crimes worse than the people they arrest. If you and the corrupt would just lift your heads up and see how the government is slowly and surely destroying its country and people, then something might change.
What attempt was that? The alleged incident that Amelia has not been found guilty of? The march itself? What are you talking about?
Alert, you're really trying to attack something with a weak, baseless argument, now, aren't you? None of us have trustfunds. I can assure you of that. Our money comes from our labor, from working... As Craig pointed out below, we're working class. Time to put your ironic snarky comments back on the shelf you pulled them from.
Why exactly did she deserve to be charged with attempted murder and sit in a jail cell for 30 days, which is far longer than any cop who has murdered people in this city has spent in any form of punishment?
I'm glad that you seem to believe that anarchists, a group of people who espouse mutual aid, liberty, and a society based on freedom and justice, would be a group of people that are merely "animals" and who would attack each other when we disagree about something. It matters not the actual history of anarchists, who have lived in harmony in federations of thousands of cities and villages (Spanish Revolution 1936-1937, Ukraine 1917-1919, Oaxaca 2006-currently) etc... It just matters that some random dude named Steve may want to defend murderous cops and claim that anarchists are the animals... although anarchists in Denver haven't murdered people while they're in custody within a jail, or shot up a truck full of kids in Aurora, or beaten multiple people senseless, or been busted with child pornography, or been accused of raping women and threatening them with arres if they report the assault... but those amazing heroes of cops have been accused of all of these atrocities... and been found guilty of them on many occassions... but we're the animals. Sweet logic, dude.
Too bad this bum doesnt understand what anarchism is... Anarchism is a working class ideology where the world is self-managed by the working class.
Well, you live like animals, you scavenge like animals, you have animal mohawks, and you definitely smell like animals, what with your "deodorant is a capitalist conspiracy" vibe. Sure, you may FEEL progressive and intelligent when you sit in City 'O' City, looking up factoids on Wikipedia and trying to impress each other with obscure verbs and references. The reality, Johnbrown, is that while you and the other vermin with whom you most likely cohabitate THINK you are changing the world with your violent outbursts and dated catch phrases, the rest of society actually contributes to the greater good. I know that playing a functional role in the world is something that might be just beyond your grasp, but I forgive you for being misguided. Marx would understand, don't you think?
read your own sentence. I DID read yours several times before commenting, because I had to. written the way you did, you infer everything about the event is entire alleged and end the sentence with "Amelia has not been found guilty of?".
I know the trial didn't start 'yet', which I why I was looking for clarity on your statement. Because only half of what you wrote makes sense. if you sentence had ended with "yet" it would have made perfect sense.
I think the values your ascribe to the people of this country are too variable to apply one way or the other. Some people believe in the way the law works, while others do not. personal choice plays a bigger part in whether laws 'work' or not. It seems the judge does because he dropped the part of the charges he felt didn't fit in the laws he believes in-which is a good thing-that its not up to the general public alone. If it was I would take my chances with rolling dice or Rock, Paper, Scissors odds.
I said she has not been found guilty. The trial has not happened yet. I did not say she has been found not guilty. Please take time to read the sentence before commenting. But you know that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing that this country supposedly holds so dear?
Yeah, gotta say something to this... attacking yuppies, I can get down with.
Using a pretty loaded sexist term to attack them with, I can't.
All my life I wanted to respond to a genius! finally! to answer your immediate question:
1. Horses (and several species of Zebra! They've got rad striped ones too sometimes!)2. Chinese crested dogs (C'mon, the PERFECT anarchist dog, am I right?)3. Sulfur crested cockatoos (bright yellow AND they're fully adjustable)4. Pileated woodpeckers (bright red without the manic panic hair dye!)5. Hyenas (well known in fact for the their short but spiky doos)6. Several species of our of close cousins the monkeys like the Thomas Leaf monkey7. Certain varieties of chickens and roosters
(google for pictures of course!) I could go on-heck where do you think WE got the idea from? humans are not that original anyway-we like copying one another. I can go to the end of haight street any day and find at least 5 matching mohawks without even trying. If anarchism works for you, that is great. Although I have never gotten why one system with inherent problems is better/morally superior than another system with inherent problems-single systems are all flawed anyway-or why working to pay for things you love-particularly if you love working or love what you do is 'evil' and driving society to its downfall? ever watched a bunch of anarchists get into an argument? Or been called a 'faggot' and "kike jewboy" because you wouldn't give up half of the piece of pizza you've still got in your mouth-the only food I had the entire day-a mere 10 feet from the anarchist bookstore no less-by one? I was flattered being considered to be jewish (i'm not) but deeply offended by the homophobia-because I am definitely gay. why does being hungry mean I am jewish or gay? still trying to figure that one out.
Sorry, but I wanted a place to keep my old Crass LPs that didn't involve staying in a house with 10 or more others-stepping over drunk people I didn't know asleep on the floor-having to worry if my clothes or stereo were going to be 'liberated' when I got home. If that makes me a 'tool of the man' then I can live with that. I am an independent artist-and I need somewhere to produce my work without worry. I could work on the side of a building(and have) but why limit myself to one medium creatively? Sometimes I use a computer, or a camera or sometimes just a pencil. Where do you have room to stretch a 4x10 foot canvas that takes 2 months to dry when people stream in and out all day? I don't know how many times i have heard of things going missing at squats-what makes you think a $500 digital camera is safe when you're not ruled by johnny law? I've met some really cool anarchist folks in my day but anarchists are just as capable of being elitist and bourgeois in their own way. I know johnbrown will have a work around for this-he seemingly has a workaround for every thing so far. how about do what works for you and stop playing up every downside of other people's way of life-what I am tongue in cheek doing so above-and just get on with living yours? No rich douchebag put me where I am. I come from working class parents-I worked my ass off to get here myself-and my system isn't 'broken'-we're all in the same one together. Think globally, act locally, right? Better to light a candle than curse the darkness. Do what you will, but harm none!
by the way, what is wrong with animals with mohawks? they're cute!
different "steve" btw - we're everywhere! ;)
p.s. why do so many street anarchists insist on keeping dogs? p.p.s. why do so many anarchists wear only black and brown? color is fun!
I think it's incredibly convenient that anarchism becomes one of the only ideologies that has to be proven in incredible detail to fix all the world's problems. The same criteria is not applied to any other social or political theories. In fact, one of the most common defenses of capitalism is that "it's not perfect, but it's the best we've got."
Let me be up front. I'm not naive or utopic in my visions. I have no faith or belief that any social, economic, or political system would ever cure all the world's problems, and that under any proposed system that there would suddenly be no conflict between people.
However, identifying the sources of most conflict and violence as stemming from a range of social issues, including wars for control of nation-states, capitalist imposed scarcity of resouces, the privitization of land and necessities, the destruction and over exploitation of the natural world, and imposed social stratification (white supremacy, patriarchy, etc...) that all stem directly from an authoritarian worldview embodied by the state and capitalism, one could (and I do) logically argue that abolishing these forms of domination would end a large amount of violence plaguing the world as we speak, whether that be warfare, poverty, or sexual violence.
The truth is, however, that you are right to point out that there will still be conflict. The difference then is which systems naturally promote and take advantage of conflict, and in fact prosper from violence and coercion. As a political and economic project, the capalistic nation-state flourishes from violence and coercion. Anarchism, on the other hand, does not.
So, the argument could be boiled down to a question of what we think is better, not what we think is perfect. Self governing communities based upon mutual aid and gift economies? Or the militaristic state that is based upon an economic system in which 5% of the world's population owns 90% of the world's wealth. Remember capitalism doesn't just allow for this paradigm, it relies on inequality as a means to maintain and replicate itself.
I'd rather take my chances in a self governing community any day.
As far as your reading of the history goes, the Makhnovist experience in the Ukraine was crushed, in the end, by the Soviet Red Army, not protected by it. The same can be said of the Spanish experience during their revolution. The state, in the end, undid these projects and movements.
If you are trying to make an argument that in the end, all anarchist projects will be crushed by nation-states, that argument would have to presume that nation-states have not weakened considerably over the last 50-60 years, and that a general mood against capitalism is also not growing at this very moment across the world. It would also presume that capitalism and nation-states can continue to exist in a world with ever diminishing resources that these projects can extract for their own survival. Capitalism and the state, as social and economic projects, can only exist with a constant extraction of resources from the natural world. Sooner than later, those resources will dwindle to the point where this can no longer happen.
However, maybe you are in the end, correct to a certain extent. Anarchism, as with any revolutionary ideology, will need a still much larger base than it has currently, and to become a viable option, will have to replicate itself in a greater consciousness. So, until that time, anarchism will not be the popular paradigm.
However, that being said, it took centuries for capitalism to evolve into the system it is today, starting with the disbanding of the commons in Europe under fuedalism, and took centuries of slavery, war, genocide, and other horrors to cement itself as the ecnomic and political system of control. Social, political, and economic systems don't replace others overnight. It takes time, and lots of struggle.
I'll turn a burden of some proof on you here. Please tell me where and when, and for how long, a peaceful capitalist and statist society has existed. Without slavery, genocide, poverty, murder, rape, social warfare, and horrific violence. If I have some burden to prove that anarchism can solve all the world's problems from the common cold to arguments between family members, I'd love to see a similar defense of capitalism and the nation-state.
In the end, I know which social, economic, and political systems make more sense to me, appear to alleviate some of the actual causes of widespread violence, and will no longer devestate and exploit an already over-tapped natural world.
Thanks for your time.
Okay, I have done as you requested and google'd all about anarchist communities. I see that only three or four have ever existed that maintained order outside of a state, and none of them lasted more than three years. So let's look at the Free Terrority in the Ukraine. Why would any anarchist community not suffer the same fate as that one? It is unrealistic to assume a different outcome. If you are able to have your own anarchist society, you will be always be preyed upon by outside forces, it is the law of the jungle. Without a state to protect you, it will end and end badly.
All these thriving anarchist communities you imagine exist under the protective umbrellas and security provided by state governments. Yes, there horrible things occurring all over the world, but if you see the collapse of states and institutions, what do you see filling in that void?? Where are all the guns going? If you see the collapse of systems, you really believe that there will be less violence? Those in the military and police will seize even more power than they have now. I'm curious to know why you think this wouldn't happen, and how everyone would become good and come together in some sort of positive community? Not to be disrespectful, but it seems incredibly naive, and that you are no more than a critic of our current system (which is admittedly bad) who offers no remotely viable alternative.
Maybe a quick read of some actual history of anarchist movements and places where anarchism has actually prospered would be in order.
Anarchism is one of the largest, most diverse, and growing social movements in the world. A quick google search on the active anarchist movements in Chile, South Africa, Mexico, Argentina, Korea, Egypt, Greece, Great Britain, Belarus, and countless other countries would show how large and viable these social movements are.
Also, are you somehow trying to argue that there isn't widespread violence, rape, murder, and brutality right now in the United States? The current way we live, these currently existing predatory social, economic, and political systems rely heavily on brutality, murder, sexual assault, and coercive force.
Have you not been paying attention to the military occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan? What about U.S. interventions in Haiti, Panama, Nicaragua, Iran, Serbia, and countless other countries...
Is genocide a product of a stateless society, or a product of nation-states and the militants that protect them? Were the bloody horrible massacres in Rwanda, Kosovo, Bosnia, Sudan, Poland, Germany, Cambodia, etc... the horrible consequence of a stateless, self governing situation? Fuck no. These were all the results of nation-states and formal or paramilitary bodies vying for state control within a market economy.
If you really want to laughably argue that our world doesn't contain such horrific abuses of power, directly as a result of the nation-state project, then I think you really are living with a silver spoon in your mouth. Maybe turning on the evening news or traveling to communities all over the world, including in cities all over the country, would really enlighten you about what systems inherently breed widespread violence, rape, murder, and brutality.
Trying to make anarchy sound like any kind of viable option is completely ridiculous. Yes, our system sucks, and this world sucks. But if we truly had anarchy, society would collapse and we'd end up slaves to someone, much harsher than fucking Citibank. The strongest, most heavily-armed and cruelest among us would seize power. It wouldn't be all flowers and holding hands and working together and bullshit. It would be worse than Rwanda. It would be violence, rape, murder and brutality. Unless you're going to make weapons somehow magically disappear, and exterminate all the evil people in this world, anarchy would be worse than hell. You'd spend your life on the run from evil people intent on taking your resources.
Yet another post filled with "your kind" type logic. You seem to really love the idea of "othering" people that you feel aren't worth as much as you. You seem to really view yourself as more highly evolved and better than so many other people who aren't as "productive" as you.
In the end, you can "wash your hands" of me on the internet. But as long as you view other people as lower than you, as long as you try to tear people apart to make yourself feel better and validate yourself, you're going to be dealing with someone calling you out on it.
Sorry you seem to have thought that anarchism was a "fad" in the 80's. Maybe if you were involved with some ridiculous youth subcultural scene, it was indeed a fad for you. You grew up from your teenage rebellion quite well, didn't you?
For some of us, who have been working class all of our lives, and will continue to be, this isn't a fad. It's not mindless rebellion. It's understanding our conditions and our role within a society based on production and the accumulation of resources and wealth by a very small minority of the population, who grow fat and wealthy while the rest of us work away our lives to enrich these rich parasites.
Go back to doing whatever it is you are doing... talking shit on the internet on everyone who doesn't fit into your narrow conception of what a productive human being is. The rest of your Westword posts make you indeed look like sad, paranoid, and angry little man... no matter how much you try to deny it. You belittle folks who smoke weed. You belittle folks who take a stand for politics you may not agree with. You tear down folks with nearly every post.
My thought is that in the end, you feel much bigger just trying to dehumanize everyone else in an anonymous forum on the internet.
Well, it certainly looks like I put a bee in your bonnet, doesn't it? If your anarchist theology were actually viable, it would be taking off at a greater rate than it is currently. I tried the anarchist fad back in the 80's. Sure, the rich were ruining the world, the man brought me down and blah blah blah blah blah. Then I grew up and became a functioning, contributing member of my community and society (and guess what: I'm not an angry, sad, paranoid little man like yourself). The police aren't out to get me. The man isn't keeping me down. Sure, we're going through some hard times right now, but that doesn't mean the world is crumbling around us. Are those the points you use to assimilate more depressed and uneducated youth into your cult following? Take a chill pill, Johndouche. Statistics show that higher levels of stress can shorten your lifespan. Though, in your case, that might lessen the diameter of the black hole called welfare most of your kind wallow in.
Good day to you, Johndouche. I wash my hands of your nonsense.In other words, "Peace out, biotch!"
Steve, you're just an idiot, or a nazi. Using words like vermin. I don't have a mohawk. I wear deoderant. I was raised a redneck, and stay the hell away from City O City and similar places. That's not my crowd at all.
You can say what you want about reality, but let's be honest. Your sacred capitalist system is crumbling. In every country, in every community. Unemployment, foreclosures, poverty, evictions, debtor's going to prison, and the other side of the coin... social unrest, revolts, occupations of state capitols, community seizures of land and buildings, strikes... your world is collapsing around you.
I understand why you lash out... you're watching everything you've held sacred suddenly become so bankrupt and broken... you have to blame someone other than those rich douchebags that have put us all in the positions we're in.
So you, just like a classical fascist, lash out at the "animals", the "vermin", the scum that you look down upon daily. You treat people like garbage that try to survive, and even build something better than this collapsing world you've invested into so heavily.
The reality you see doesn't exist. Take another look around you.
If anyone's phrases or ideas are dated, they're yours. Because your time is over.